« No Triple Crown Winner This Year. | Main | Coldplay's Idiot Frontman. »

May 22, 2005

TrackBack

TrackBack URL for this entry:
http://www.typepad.com/services/trackback/6a00d83455aa0369e200d8342444ab53ef

Listed below are links to weblogs that reference Taking Islam Seriously.:

» Identifying the enemy from TigerHawk
Read the whole thing, and consider the possibility that we treat Muslims as if they are not responsible for their actions because we -- meaning the Western media and policy elites -- do not believe that they are capable of responsibility. This is con... [Read More]

» Taking Islam Seriously from Ace of Spades HQ
href="http://www.bloggledygook.com/bloggledygook/2005/05/taking_islam_se.html">Must read, seriously: In today's Dubai, home to cutting-edge resort design and prestigious golf and tennis tournaments (in which, we presume, women sometimes wear shorts or... [Read More]

» Sunday NY Times Bias Round-Up from No Oil for Pacifists
Another NY Times Trifecta: Frank Rich's column is more vacuous than usual, accusing the administration of making Newsweek "the scapegoat for lethal anti-American riots in Afghanistan." Funny, Frank, I thought scapegoats were "made to bear the blame of ... [Read More]

» Miscellanea: The Hypocrisy of Frank Rich Edition from Decision '08
The Instapundit links to two very well-written, lengthy pieces taking the MSM to task for its blind spot to real religious tyranny, as opposed to the fantasy 'theocratic' ravings of the NY Times : the hypocritical stance of Frank Rich re: Islam is ex... [Read More]

» the empire strikes back from Andúnië
Newsweek is offering another mea culpa. As most of you know, we have unequivocally retracted our story. In the light of the Pentagon’s denials and our source’s changing position on the allegation, the only responsible course was to say that... [Read More]

» "Good Muslims" and "Good Germans" from ShrinkWrapped
In the fall out of the Newsweek [Read More]

» Submitted for Your Approval from Watcher of Weasels
First off...  any spambots reading this should immediately go here, here, here,  and here.  Die spambots, die!  And now...  here are all the links submitted by members of the Watcher's Council for this week's vote. Council link... [Read More]

» THE COUNCIL HAS SPOKEN from Right Wing Nut House
The votes are in from this week's Watcher's Council and once again, it was a tough choice. I was lucky enough to walk away with top honors for my post on the possible Bird Flu pandemic entitled "A Killer in the Shadows" but there were several other... [Read More]

» The Council has spoken! from The Glittering Eye
The Watcher's Council has announced its selections for the best posts of the past week. The winning council post was Right Wing Nut House's excellent post A Killer in the Shadows about the potential avian flu pandemic. It's a warning... [Read More]

» The Council has spoken! from The Glittering Eye
The Watcher's Council has announced its selections for the best posts of the past week. The winning council post was Right Wing Nut House's excellent post A Killer in the Shadows about the potential avian flu pandemic. It's a warning... [Read More]

» The Coalition of the Willing from Watcher of Weasels
As you may or may not already be aware, members of the Watcher's Council hold a vote every week on what we consider to be the most link-worthy pieces of writing around...  though I don't actually vote unless there happens... [Read More]

» WHOOPS , I FORGOT (THE COUNCIL HAS SPOKEN OLD NEWS) from The SmarterCop
I honestly don't know why the 3rd slipped my mind, but here goes. Belated congratulations to the winners in the Watcher's Council vote for June 3: Right Wing Nut House, with A Killer in the Shadows; and the non-council winner,... [Read More]

» WHOOPS , I FORGOT (THE COUNCIL HAS SPOKEN OLD NEWS) from The SmarterCop
Congratulations to this week's winners in the Watcher's Council vote: This week's council member winner is Right Wing Nut House, with Remembering Why I Love History; and the non-council winner, Winds of Change, with THIS is a Gulag. Congratulations to... [Read More]

Comments

Tom Fuller

Mr. Berczik,

Words don't fail. You found them and used them. I've been catching hell since 2001 for being disgusted with both media and government. You nailed it.

Many thanks

cali white bear

Wow. this is a worthy screed. truth as a blunt trauma weapon. keep it up.

ShrinkWrapped

You are absolutely correct that we face the potential of millions of fanatic Muslim Jihadists if things spin out of control. I do think there are people in our government/military concerned about this and how best to minimize the chances of the worst case scenario coming to pass. OTOH, I do not see any evidence that the MSM gives any thought to the danger of fanning the flames of Islamic fascism and fanaticism. Much of the Muslim world is kept in ignorance; they are told by the likes of al Jazeera and the Iranian Mullahs that the Americans, the Great Satan of thier nightmares, is waging war on all of Islam. If, perhaps when, it becomes "us or them", we will be faced with the potentail of a billion enemies. When Bush or Rice go out of thier way to pay homage to the RoP, it is with a mind of avoiding further polarization. I do not know if their apporach will work. I very much doubt that, at the moment, calling on the Islamic world to join us in a moderate front against Jihad/Islamic Fascism, whatever we call it, would succeed. The MSM is making the job of avoiding world wide Jihad more difficult when they lend their authority to the constant cries of abuse and discrimination from the Jihadists. To the average, poorly educated Muslim in Indonesia, al Jazeera's constant cries of abuse can begin to lose their sting after a while, but when Newsweek says it, well then it must be true!

dougf

Not exactly On-Topic but is it true that the NYT is converting their on-line editorial content to a user pay format?
If so, that probably solves the Frank Rich,Maureen Dowd,Paul Krugman,Bob Herbert problem with intellectual coherence,not to mention emotional stability.Oh they will still be as annoying as ever,but they will be preaching completely to the converted,and once you achieve a certain degree of loonacy,assimilating more becomes rather redundant.

If I never have to hear of any of them again,I feel my existence can only be improved.

Tim

I don't disagree per se, but I think the Administration views this sort of confrontation as provocative and, if forced to choose sides, leading moderate Muslims to very possibly(if not probably) side with the Islamo-fascists rather than the West. Even if they should be wrong on this asssessment, if it is their assumption, then their fidelity to the "Islam is a religion of peace" pablum is at least consistent with their view of the battlefield. Better to win the war now and lead moderate Muslims to accept the "new reality" than to provoke a showdown that might force us to fight much larger numbers than we are now. Of course, if this strategy is wrong and we begin to lose, our trump card is nukes over Medina and Mecca, which I daresay the U.S.A.F. will not fear the hand of "Allah" in fulfilling it's mission. Blinkered though many may be, Muslims will understand the meaning of Allah's impotency in defending his holiest sites. Let's hope we win before it comes to that.

brb

A little more focus and clarity would have been nice. I susptect I agree with you somewhat, but I couldn't finish it. The blog is well named.

Allan

In Dubai women don't just wear shorts in the tennis courts
they wear them in the streets.
People would be surprised.
Dubai is not Saudi Arabia.

Cosmo

Well said.

We've all known a family member or friend for whom life's problems and missed opportunities (often self-inflicted) are always someone else's fault. No one relishes speaking the truth to someone wallowing in self-pity or lost in delusional over-appraisal of their importance. We'd rather avoid confrontation or make excuses for them as they lurch from crisis to crisis, demanding time, money and emotional energy from all around, and often growing to despise or abuse those who help the most.

But at some point, the sympathy runs out -- and what's left is contempt.

Vavoom

To claim that Muslims need to "get with the 21st century" and stop worshiping "inanimate objects" is utter nonsense. Your usage of sterotypes is appalling. The vast majority of Muslims are good people. I am an American Muslim. I have chosen to stand with my country. However, I am often intrigued by the lack of interest by Americans to learn more about my religion. Just as much as moderates, such as myself need to fight for our religion, intelligent Americans, such as yourself, should error on the side of caution -- making stereotypical statements such as those contained in this post are exactly what is *not* needed. You'll only end up alienating moderate Muslims -- we are your greatest ally.

I like your blog. It's actually a well versed look into the political world. This post has many good points, however it is inherently flawed. I do not mean to be offensive, but you really need to consider more carefully the religion and culture of the people you are dealing with. Taking a heavy handed approach and labeling Muslims is the quickest way to lose this battle.

Again, this is a great blog. I hope I haven't offended you.

Steve

D-This is your best post yet!

"Given that radicalized Muslims have been characterized by mainstream adherents as having perverted Islam's tenets and practices, wouldn't poking that particular sore spot be a useful and legitimate questioning tactic?"

Whoa! Way to cut through the mud with a scapel!

And Vavoom, your accusation of alienation is misplaced. Your religion is being hijacked by nutjobs and this is what really alienates you, right? If I may, it is your job to get off your couch and act to save your moderate Islam.

Daniel's post should serve as a catalyst to your action. Get busy. We'll help.
-Steve

Vavoom

Steve: How would you help? I mean, really? Tell me what you would do to help me? C'mon, what is anybody doing to help moderate Muslims? Would you really rally around a moderate American Muslim? In how many communities have moderate Muslims been elected to office in this country? We are absolutely voiceless. The only people getting any attention are nutjob terrorists and American flag waving nationalists (read: Ann Coulter types). There are two alienating forces here. Nutjobs abroad and the prejudiced at home. Y'all aren't making it easy by stereotyping Muslims, I'll tell you that much.
I ask you this: What precisely should a moderate American Muslim do to help? Give me specifics. I want to hear them. What would you do if you lived in a country where the majority of your own citizens are denigrating your religion and way of life? Looking abroad, sick people of your own faith are denigrating your religion and way of life. What would you do? Orphaned are we moderate Muslims. Claiming that you'll help is meaningless if you're simultaneously supporting stereotypical rhetoric. Again, step up and tell me what you would do to help and what I can do to likewise.

CCM

"You'll only end up alienating moderate Muslims -- we are your greatest ally."

No you're not; not if you are so easily alienated by straight talk.

mrsizer

"Again, step up and tell me what you would do to help and what I can do to likewise."

Be visible. Join (or found) Muslims Against Terror.

Pro-Life Catholics picket Planned Parenthood. GLBT organizations picket Catholic Churches. Regardless of one's point of view, both have the courage of their convictions.

Get out there. Make your voice heard. Don't complain about stereotypes: Get out there and prove them wrong.

mrsizer

Post Script: "Tell me what you would do to help me?"

Absolutely nothing. Why should I? I don't care a whit about Islam. Help yourself.

Steve

Vavoom,
I read the emotion in your response. Your words convey a sense of abandonment by your religion, and now your country, that really challenged me.

Moderate muslims are too silent. I should hear you screaming loudly from the mountain top about the fallacies of Wahabism and Bin Ladenism. Before I get to how I can help, here are two suggestions that I offer respectfully to you and other moderate muslims: 1. Creat a mouthpiece for the advocacy of moderation. In America we are free to associate, form political parties and to publish. I suggest you create a blog, an association, or a paper publication. And write letters to the editors of local and national newspapers. 2. Rally the moderate muslim community to fom a cohesive and relevant political force. Start in your mosque, family and home-town. Organize your brothers and sisters who love the freedoms of this country unequivocally into a group that demonstrates its commitment to the maintenance of the freedoms we enjoy here. Then invest words, monies and actions into the ongoing democratization of the Arab world, and the liberalization of Muslim nations from Malaysia to Nigeria.

What can I do? Three things: 1. I recount to whoever will listen my joyful experiences with muslims around the world. When I lived in Iran my best friend was a boy named Barus. His family was muslim, and their hospitality and friendship was crucial to making my family feel comfortable in a strange land. When I lived in Saudia Arabia, my friend Abdullah showed me the communities of Al Khobar and Dammam where the heart of the Arabian people showed loud and clear, without the cloying dressing of government BS. 2. I support verbally and financially the liberation of Afghanistan and Iraq, and the ensuing tide of reform now sweeping the Middle East. All American taxpayers are doing their part to eradicate radical islam by filing their taxes with the IRS. 3. I and others can help by evangelizing publications and organizations of moderate muslims like yourself. By buying your journals and convincing others to as well, we can help you grow your moderate advocacy through subscription fees and advertising revenues. Lastly, this isn't my blog, but, when you get your blog up and running, I'll encourage Daniel and others like him to add it to his blogroll and link often to increase exposure for your moderate views.

As a U.S. citizen, you are part of the most incredible human creation on the planet in all time. Understand that American's are a multi-ethic, multi-religious people with an almost endless gift of patience and tolerance. But once our nation is threatened, we will climb any mountain to defend our familes and livelihoods. This is the lesson the Taliban and Baathists have had to learn the hard way.
-Steve

Vavoom

CCM: Please. "Straight talk" is a matter of perspective. Are you unwilling to look at the issue from another perspective? If not, I'm afraid that you *are* alienating others.
mrsizer: The fact that you don't care about Islam is part of the problem. The fact that you don't care to support moderate Muslims is a part of the problem. You expect things to magically improve, but are unwilling to support those willing to help the situation. That's very sad. Very sad.
Steve: Thank you for your well thought out response. I have a blog. I will make greater attempts to champion the cause of moderate Muslims and Americans alike. I'm concerned that you advocate violence as a means to win this war. It'll never work. Trust me, terrorism is a grassroots effort. Engaging them in this fashion will only destroy this country.
All: If my responses appear rude or inappropriate, take no offense. Again, I'm just trying to engage, not insult.

Brian Macker

Vavoom,

One option is for you to reject your religion. I've been looking at it's tenets and it's a pretty vile religion in the first place, with an awful history of violence. You'd be better off without it. It is ancient intolerant superstition of the worst sort. It's you who do not understand your religion not the terrorists. How many of these warning signs of a cult apply to Islam.

Vavoom

Brian: What are the signs of a cult? I'd like to hear *your* opinion. Having actually studied such things extensively while in college, I'd like to hear your vast "expertise." The list you put forth could be applied to Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism whatever, if utilized by the naive. Cults are not defined by beliefs. They are defined by tactics utilized. Get a good book on the subject. I recommend the work by Margaret Singer. Your ignorance about Islam abounds. Have you ever read anything about the religion, other than some webpage? You took a five second look over a couple of websites and now you're an expert. That's laughable.

Should all Christians abandon their faith because it has a violent history? All Abrahamic religions have a violent history, largely as a result of intolerance and ignorance. I'm surprised, I looked over your blog and it's quite good. Why would you insult somebody trying to advocate moderate religious practices?

NewsGnome

Since Islamic extremes have co-opted the religion and turned it into a murder machine, so-called moderate Muslims have conspicuously remained silent. The failure of terrorists to maintain attacks against America has caused them to begin attacks on fellow Muslims while at the same time justifying attacks with a "friend of my enemy" rationalization. But the fact remains that they are killing their own at an amazing daily rate.

An American woman who spoke fluent Arabic was invited to a "convention"(in Florida I believe) ostensibly held to explain the concepts of Islam. While investigators of the religion were fed a plethora of platitudes in the public sessions of the convention, behind closed door sessions , the woman who was able to understand every word, reported vituperative venom right here in America spewed by not radical Muslim, but those who define themselves as "Moderate Muslims." Even apparently moderate Muslims are publically moderate but privately radical.

I do not believe that we have much time to get this message across and I don't find the "bend over backwards" approach is working. Muslims take America's efforts at evenhandedness for weakness. The sooner we learn that, the better chance we'll have to stop the attacks on our values and safety.

Brian Macker

Vavoom,

Since you are not around and I am a busy fellow I will not be replying immediately to any great extent. I want you to know however that I was serious. That was not supposed to be an "insult". So I don't waste my time please tell me exactly what you thought was an insult. I thought it was good advice. I read that last post on your blog before I wrote that. You are the one complaining about the vicious behavior of your fellow Muslims. Did it ever cross your mind that it might have something to do with the Koran, which I linked to in my post?

You did misunderstand me. I was not claiming Islam as practiced by all Muslims is a cult. I fact I made very few claims at all in my comment. I think however you can understand that most of the attributes of a cult are in Islam. It only requires a few very small changes to get back to the kind of violent cult that Muhammad led. That is exactly why these brainwashed cult members are flying planes into buildings. This is surely the sign of a cult. One needs only stick to the Koran and introduce a strong leadership and presto-chango you have a cult.

Surely you understand that your reply was mostly bluster. You have no idea what I do and do not know. I might just know much more than you suspect. I also agree with much of your reply. I am neither a Christian nor Jew, and they do have a violent past. However the Xtians and Jews don't have the kinds of problems the Muslims have in the present. Muslims have the additional burden of a religion that has retained many of those violent Abrahamic tendencies. The reasons are intimately tied to the comments made about Islam getting with the 21st century. The problem with Muslims is they take their religion seriously.

Rejecting your religion is a valid option. One you should consider. I have made the same suggestion to Christians and Jews, merely on the grounds of the falsehood of their religion. It's a step I took with on grounds that were not nearly as strong as those to be found against Islam.

My views are actually much more complex than that but I don't plan on writing a book. This is my "I don't have time" reply.

So what exactly did you find offensive? I am also wondering why you were so apologetic to the blog master in your first post saying, "I hope I haven't offended you". What's with all this worry about insulting people? Why should discussing the truth cause insult and if it did so what? You claim to be an American and you don't understand that? We are not discussing this in your Mosque. You came here.

You in fact admitted that your religion is violent but then pointed the finger at other religions as if to say, "I stole a cookie but so did Ali and Muhammad". How does the violence in the distant past of Christianity and even more distant past of Jews redeem Islam?

Note that when I use the word history for Islam it runs much closer to the present. Violence as close as yesterday counts as history. Islam’s entire history has been one long string of violence, injustice, and intolerance. I don't think keeping Jews and Christians as third class citizens and tax slaves counts as being tolerant towards them. That however is justice in the eyes of the Koran. Muslims use this type of history as evidence of their tolerance.

How is the violent nature of the Islamic religion an insult to you? Are you violent too? That was not my assumption. If I had believed that then I would say join true Muslims in Iraq to your doom. If not then you're not a good muslim , you should take pride in that, not insult.

I can appreciate the accomplishments of my heritage without the Christian baggage. Can you do the same for your heritage? Did the breeding of Arabian horses require Islam? Did the invention of the Damascus sword? I don’t think so. If so then why is all the best technology now being invented by infidels? In fact Islam is an obstacle.

Lose the religion. You will be better off. That is unless your friends and family are intolerant. Could they take that?

The comments to this entry are closed.

November 2008

Sun Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri Sat
            1
2 3 4 5 6 7 8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15
16 17 18 19 20 21 22
23 24 25 26 27 28 29
30            
Blog powered by Typepad